New profiles for "All-New X-Men?"

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Morbius
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New profiles for "All-New X-Men?"

Postby Morbius » Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:42 am

Should there perhaps be new, separate character profiles for the time-displaced 5 "original" X-Men currently residing in the present? Multiple of them have gone through major physical changes making them distinct from their "future" counterparts (Jean and Angel both have powers their "future" selves have never had) and with a new ongoing book launching, it seems like they're sticking around for awhile. Even Marvel.Wikia.Com has given them the made-up alternate Earth designation "Earth-TRN240," treating them as separate characters. It seems problematic that there's currently no way to track when both versions of any of these characters appear in an issue together, or which version appears in an issue when only one of them does. Seeing "Iceman" credited in any comic from the past few years tells me nothing of which Iceman actually appeared.

spid
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Re: New profiles for "All-New X-Men?"

Postby spid » Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:53 am

Why would we need separate entries for the same characters that have appeared since the sixties? They are the same characters so you don't need different entries. When the Beast changed blue and furry that was a pretty radical physical change, but no one says he is not the same character. Ice Man has also gone through lots of physical changes over the years. Neither qualify for separate character entries the same holds true now.

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Morbius
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Re: New profiles for "All-New X-Men?"

Postby Morbius » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:15 am

Well I agree there's no need to make a different profile for a single character who is evolving linearly and remaining the same character. We can agree on that completely.

But we're talking here about characters who may have started as just "the past versions of current characters," but as they've stayed around in the present for multiple years (and are about to get a new ongoing series, so they'll be sticking around for at least a few years longer it seems) they've evolved as characters separately from the way the actual past versions of the characters did. They've had experiences, physical changes, even changes in sexual orientation that never happened to the "future" versions they're sharing page space with, making them distinct from just being the same characters anymore.

The main problem with the way we're currently doing things, being that the regular 616 character profile is being used for both versions, is that there's no way to track which one is appearing, or if both are appearing. If you want to track the story of the All-New X-Men through multiple titles, there's currently no way to do that. You can look at the appearances of Cyclops, but there's no distinction between the modern Cyclops who's been appearing linearly since the 60s and is a terrorist wanted world-wide and is the leader of the Uncanny X-Men, or the young version, who is a teenaged time-tossed space pirate. If I wanted to buy and read the appearances of Angel, who became the new Apocalypse and then had his mind wiped and may or may not think he's an actual angel, there's no way for me to distinguish his appearances from those of Angel, a time-lost young man who flipped sides from the All-New X-Men to the Uncanny X-Men and then had an adventure in space where he was given cosmic awareness and then came back with his old All-New X-Men friends. Or what if I want to know when the young and old versions of the characters have met and faced each other? Even though 2 versions appear together frequently and are distinct in their experiences and personalities (and sometimes powers) they are credited as only one character in each issue.

I would say it makes no more sense to give no credit to these younger versions of the characters brought forward in time for an extended period of time than it would to give no credit to future versions of characters who come back in time with distinct personalities and experiences. Is it the "same" character? In a way, and maybe definitely. But they're different versions of the character and it would be valuable to recognize them separately. They are at very least, inarguably, more distinctly different than when the same character gets a new alias, for which they do get a new character profile.

spid
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Re: New profiles for "All-New X-Men?"

Postby spid » Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:20 am

To me you still have not made a strong enough argument that these characters are need separate entries. We do not make new entries for any "the early years" type books and appearances that were the rage years ago. This type of story happens all the time. We do not need to make new entries every time one of these types of stories pops up. We have other tools on the site to add more context to stories and characters.

Xelloss
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Re: New profiles for "All-New X-Men?"

Postby Xelloss » Sun Apr 03, 2016 4:22 am

This is a clear Marvel Timeline mechanics discussion, which never will be clear :P... The answer I think should be:

Will the "young version" of the X-Men return to the past and become what they are (or were XD) now? Or the adult x-men never went to the past and the young ones are from a different timeline (created as usually happen when someone travels in time in Marvel when you ARE NOT LAYLA MILLER :wink:)?

If it is the first, then I agree that they are the same profile, what happen now is like a "flashback" we never saw before (or after? XD). If it is the second, then it is as any other alternative timeline profile that "share their story until a point, and then it changes direction" (ex, most Age of Apocalypse or Year of Future Pasts character versions). They HAVE the same past, but not ALL their past is the same, SO they are different people!

The main problem with this case is that diferently to most cases (to not say ALL) this time the past happened in our present timeline, and it is not our present the past that can be changed... They can't go back and change years of comics, to change the present... If a character die now, it will not change the present, in young Scott Summer words in this week comic "IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY"

Still the question remains... Will the young X-men return and somehow not change anything in the present? Or will Marvel change the actual timeline in answer to their go back to the past? If the second is true... Then it is even more problematic... Because then the alternate version will be the present ones XD (like happen in DC resets :P)

Now, looking at the way last year of comics went on, I think it appears to be the case where the young versions are changed in a way it is very difficult to undone... So I think an alternate timeline would be the most appropiate aproach as for now... Of course anytime a Marvel writer can say something like "NO, THEY WERE CHANGED BY * insert GOD MACHINE HER* AND THEY WERE REAL PART FROM THE ADULTS STORY"... But that can always happen with ANY alternate version anytime...

They have new suits, more than 2 years of new story nevel told before, new developments and relationships... and everything is telling that THEY ARE IN THE CURRENT TIMELINE FOR GOOD.

So yes, I vote for the different profile XD

They could be the same "616 versions" at first, but by now I think it is certain they are not that versions anymore

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Soda
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Re: New profiles for "All-New X-Men?"

Postby Soda » Sun Apr 03, 2016 7:44 am

Xelloss wrote:So yes, I vote for the different profile XD


God, I wish this nerd shit would stop. Some characters (like the FF) have so many unnecessary versions that the main version had to renamed because it couldn't be added to issues anymore because it wouldn't show up due to all those crappy variations.

Xelloss
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Re: New profiles for "All-New X-Men?"

Postby Xelloss » Sun Apr 03, 2016 4:00 pm

I agree most used versions should appear first in the list to solve that problem...

Or at least a scroll bar in the search results to view ALL results of a search

prime25
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Re: New profiles for "All-New X-Men?"

Postby prime25 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:57 am

It's like with Bishop - he showing up in AOA but was Bishop while everyone else was new.

Xelloss
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Re: New profiles for "All-New X-Men?"

Postby Xelloss » Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:28 pm

Bishop is a weird case... His future keeps changing but him not...

That brings very bizarre situations, as when he wanted to kill Hope because... well, not even him knew really!

RebeccaBond
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Re: New profiles for "All-New X-Men?"

Postby RebeccaBond » Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:37 pm

The ALL-NEW X-MEN are on a mission to write their own futures and none is more determined to escape their destiny than Evan Sabahnur, who is to one day become the next host for the genocidal villain APOCALYPSE.

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Beyonder
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Re: New profiles for "All-New X-Men?"

Postby Beyonder » Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:44 pm

Ima try to add all the ones I know!

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EarthFurst
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Re: New profiles for "All-New X-Men?"

Postby EarthFurst » Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:28 am

Thanks to Morbius for starting this thread. (I was going to start a thread about the time-displaced young X-Men, but was glad a thread was already here.)

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Wo ... RessurXion
"Angel joins the rest of the time-displaced X-Men in hopes of finally returning to their own timeline. However they discover that they aren't from Earth 616's timeline and with no way of figuring out which timeline they're from, they become stranded on Earth 616."

As far as i can tell separate comicbookdb pages for the time-displaced young x-men haven't been created yet ... wondering what their database names should be.

Suggest character page for time-displaced x-men be something like
"Angel (Marvel)(young time-displaced Warren Worthington)"
"Beast (Marvel)(young time-displaced Henry McCoy)"
"Cyclops (Marvel)(young time-displaced Scott Summers)"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Worthington_III#Time-displaced_Warren_Worthington_III
http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Warren_Worthington_III_(Earth-TRN240)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beast_(comics)#Time-displaced_Beast
http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Henry_McCoy_(Earth-TRN240)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclops_(comics)#Time-displaced_Cyclops
http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Scott_Summers_(Earth-TRN240)

too sleepy to do Jean or Iceman fully:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceman_(Marvel_Comics)#Time-displaced_Iceman
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Grey#Time-displaced_Jean_Grey

nighty night.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Current list of Beast/McCoy listed at comicbook: (as of Monday, September 4, 2017, 10:26 UTC)

Beast (Marvel)(100th Anniversary)
Beast (Marvel)(Adventures)
Beast (Marvel)(Animated)
Beast (Marvel)(Apes)
Beast (Marvel)(Battle of the Atom) {I believe this is the Hank from the future}
Beast (Marvel)(Civil War)
Beast (Marvel)(E is for Extinction)
Beast (Marvel)(Earth X)
Beast (Marvel)(Earth-1815 - Exiles)
Beast (Marvel)(Earth-2189)
Beast (Marvel)(Earth-58161)
Beast (Marvel)(Earth-600123)
Beast (Marvel)(Earth-763 - Exiles)
Beast (Marvel)(Earth-8649 - Exiles)
Beast (Marvel)(Earth-9904 - 1950s Avengers)
Beast (Marvel)(Henry McCoy)
Beast (Marvel)(Last Gun on Earth)
Beast (Marvel)(Noir)
Beast (Marvel)(Old Man Logan)
Beast (Marvel)(Renew Your Vows)
Beast (Marvel)(Shadow-X)
Beast (Marvel)(Ultimate)
Beast (Marvel)(X-Campus)
Beast (Marvel)(X-Men The End)
Beast (Marvel)(Zombies)
Dark Beast (Marvel)(Age of Apocalypse)
Still trying to learn the ways of the ComicBookDB. http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/List_of_upcoming_comics

spid
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Re: New profiles for "All-New X-Men?"

Postby spid » Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:48 am

As a counter-point this is the solicitation for Captain America: Steve Rogers #13

If Captain America has been an agent of Hydra since childhood, how did he fight WWII on the side of the Allies? • The secret, untold story is revealed here!

Does this mean there should be a whole new entry for Steve Rogers? No, I think everyone agrees this is just a natural story arc for the original character. I am still not seeing any difference from this type of story and the young X-men story arc.


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